{"id":39053,"date":"2024-10-27T22:02:17","date_gmt":"2024-10-28T02:02:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/brain-trainer.com\/?post_type=answer&#038;p=39053"},"modified":"2024-10-27T22:02:17","modified_gmt":"2024-10-28T02:02:17","slug":"neurofeedback-exercise-or-operant-conditioning","status":"publish","type":"answer","link":"https:\/\/brain-trainer.com\/es\/answer\/neurofeedback-exercise-or-operant-conditioning\/","title":{"rendered":"Neurofeedback&#8211;Exercise or Operant Conditioning"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2>Neurofeedback: Exercise or Operant Conditioning?<\/h2>\n<p>I believe neurofeedback is like exercise.\u00a0In most exercise we have some form of mirror:\u00a0you might be watching yourself trying to\u00a0achieve and stay in a pose in yoga, or have a pulse-meter that informs you when you are in or out of the training range in aerobics.\u00a0There\u2019s nothing innately reinforcing about the pulse meter or even looking at yourself in a mirror or noticing how many pounds you are lifting and how many times.\u00a0They are ways of helping the brain recognize that it is moving in a desired direction. I suppose you could argue that a pulse meter beeping when you are above or below the aerobic training range is conditioning a response, but maybe it\u2019s just telling you to speed up or slow down when you are walking on a treadmill.<\/p>\n<p>Per the literature asserting that neurofeedback is a conditioned response, positive feedback is much more powerful than negative, and continuous is more powerful than contingent.\u00a0 However, I often use \u201cnegative\u201d feedback when training a client during task\u2013a tone that plays like an alarm when the client\u2019s theta (for example) rises above target and silence when it is within range.\u00a0 \u00a0It has worked very well.\u00a0 And I\u2019m a strong believer that the type of feedback (continuous or contingent) should be related to the type of exercise we are asking the brain to do.\u00a0Activating (aerobic) seems to work best with contingent (on\/off) feedback.\u00a0 Continuous feedback works better for brain yoga\/stretching (de-activating).\u00a0 \u00a0I have no idea, if NF is conditioned response behaviorism, why this would be true, but it makes a lot of sense if training is brain exercise.\u00a0 Even the issue of how long to train in a segment fits with exercise.\u00a0If you are trying to build stamina with aerobics or weight training, you use shorter sessions of pushing your limits separated by breaks (like wind-sprints).\u00a0If you are trying to release something that is too tight, you use longer, slower training segments and let the unwinding happen little by little.<\/p>\n<p>The nice thing about this approach is that you don\u2019t have to worry about whether the feedback is intrinsically rewarding or not (so you don\u2019t need different feedback for each client).\u00a0It is, as someone suggested in a previous post, and I have long said) simply a mirror.<\/p>\n<p>Classical and Operant conditioning are two concepts that behavioral psychologists use to explain what happens from their point of view. Their point of view is far from the only one\u2013or even the best one\u2013but since most literature about neurofeedback has been written by psychologists\u2013and most of them are trained behaviorally\u2013pretty much any article you read about neurofeedback will start off by taking as a given that training is \u201coperant\u201d conditioning. NOT classical. It\u2019s a handy shorthand that underlies the concept that neurological is a psychological intervention rather than something we do for ourselves. But it is far from being proven.<\/p>\n<p>First, what is classical conditioning? Pavlov\u2019s dogs who salivated at the sound of a bell. It involves placing a \u201cneutral\u201d stimulus BEFORE a REFLEX. A hundred years ago John Watson used a hammer to bang a metal pipe, thus producing a fear response in a baby boy who was not previously afraid of small furry animals. After doing this often enough\u2013hey, this was Science, so it was okay\u2013he managed to get the little child to cry in fear whenever any furry animal was presented to him. That\u2019s certainly worth doing. Save a lot of money on pet food over the years. CC is reportedly useful in desensitizing or flooding to extinguish a fear response, though after a century it\u2019s still not a primary approach. It\u2019s supposed to be good in smoking cessation or intervening in alcohol abuse, though again, I\u2019m not sure how often it\u2019s used. Instead of making you vomit when you take a drink, brain training creates enough changes (painlessly) that the compulsion to drink is no longer there\u2013not simply scared away.<\/p>\n<p>In any case CC is pretty far from what we do in brain training, where we provide FEEDBACK\u2013not a neutral stimulus\u2013AFTER the brain does something. Unless you worked pretty hard to play a certain note over and over just before the brain produced a burst of SMR, for example, it\u2019s unlikely there would be much of an effect.<\/p>\n<p>Operant conditioning (OC) is a bit different. It involves rewarding or punishing AFTER a VOLUNTARY behavior to reinforce or extinguish it. Teach a pigeon to peck a button by giving it food every time it pecks a red light\u2013not a green light. Or Barry Sterman provides sweetened milk drops to cats whenever they produce a burst of SMR above a certain level.<\/p>\n<p>If you are a hungry pigeon or cat, some bird seed or sweet milk is pretty obviously a reward, whereas, for example, some beeps from a computer, or momentary darkening of a screen may not be so clear. It raises the questions such as: does the client \u201cLIKE\u201d the feedback? It would seem that disliked training should have REDUCED the level of the desired behavior, instead of increasing it!<\/p>\n<p>Another problem\u2013one raised by Sterman himself\u2013has to do with the discreteness of the event and the feedback. Since bursts of, say, SMR are being produced multiple times per second\u2013among many other types of activity\u2013how exactly does the brain know which event is resulting in the reward? Sterman made quite a point a number of years ago of telling trainers they needed to give a recharge period after each reward. Feedback had to be intermittent rather than continuous. After a burst of SMR over threshold and production of a reward, you had to stop giving feedback for a time and then start again looking for the SMR burst. It was pretty cumbersome way of training, though (since it was Sterman telling us to do it) more than a few people went to the trouble of trying to produce designs that more or less met the requirements. To the best of my knowledge people working with clients didn\u2019t notice any particular improvement in their clients\u2019 ability to produce SMR\u2013much less their ability to relax physically, so it\u2019s pretty rare to find anyone still trying to do this.<\/p>\n<p>Maybe behavioral psychology\u2019s attempt to cast neurofeedback in its own image requires some pretty major leaps of faith to make any sense. But gosh, if brain training ISN\u2019T OC, then what could it possibly be?<\/p>\n<p>What if brain training isn\u2019t psychology? After all, it works with spiritual and physical as well as mental and emotional issues. What if it isn\u2019t about fixing mental disorders but about moving toward greater flexibility and range. Is meditation psychology? Are brain exercises like Lumosity psychology? What if brain training isn\u2019t about \u201cconditioning\u201d the brain in some kind of mechanistic way but instead is about giving it greater control instead of less?<\/p>\n<p>The hint is in the name: Feedback. One way we learn to control ourselves is by using mirrors. We do something and the feedback shows us HOW well. It seems kind of simple, but the reality is that the human brain learns most everything from mirrors. It responds to sensory inputs by taking action, then it sees what happens. Feedback. That might help explain Birgit\u2019s client\u2019s positive response to unpleasant feedback. Even if I don\u2019t LIKE what I see in the mirror, I can still learn from it. And taking the mirror home and looking into it when you aren\u2019t trying to do anything isn\u2019t likely to be terribly productive.<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t care whether you think the behavioral psychology model is more useful or the feedback\/mirrors model, or just an \u201cexercise\u201d model. It means almost nothing if your main focus is on guiding a client to produce changes. I just hate to have us tossing around concepts like \u201cconditioning\u201d\u2013which suggest that something is being done TO us\u2013without really thinking about them. Exercising in front of a mirror is something we do FOR ourselves. I like that approach much better.<\/p>\n<p>Moreover, systems as complex as the nervous system are almost certainly organized around principles of oscillatory \u201cordered chaos,\u201d rather than being neat, linear systems (linear in both a mathematical and a metaphorical sense).\u00a0 Thus, neurofeedback may be as much about resetting equilibrium points in the dynamic chaos of functional neurological systems as it is about teaching certain groups of neurons (visualize students sitting in neat rows in a classroom) to behave better.\u00a0 Obviously, it\u2019s easier for us to think in linear terms (e.g. linear algebra versus partial differential equations), but that doesn\u2019t mean that the brains that do that thinking are linear oscillatory systems.\u00a0 All that I am suggesting is that we might be doing something similar with neurofeedback:\u00a0 not so much \u201cteaching\u201d the brain to \u201cbehave\u201d better as cajoling it into different states of chaotic equilibrium.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Neurofeedback: Exercise or Operant Conditioning? I believe neurofeedback is like exercise.\u00a0In most exercise we have some form of mirror:\u00a0you might be watching yourself trying to\u00a0achieve and stay in a pose in yoga, or have a pulse-meter that informs you when you are in or out of the training range in aerobics.\u00a0There\u2019s nothing innately reinforcing about [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":112,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":5,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false},"topic":[772],"class_list":["post-39053","answer","type-answer","status-publish","hentry","answer_topic-the-bti-system"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v25.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Neurofeedback-Exercise or Operant Conditioning - brain-trainer.com<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/brain-trainer.com\/es\/answer\/neurofeedback-exercise-or-operant-conditioning\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"es_ES\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Neurofeedback-Exercise or Operant Conditioning - brain-trainer.com\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Neurofeedback: Exercise or Operant Conditioning? 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